Wednesday, October 21, 2009

OpEd: There are two major problems with the proposed "Fair Tax":

RE: Daar said...
To include "v Fair Tax" in the title of these videos is a bait and switch. The plan isn't mentioned, except in passing, by the interviewer, Geo. Noory (at 7:31, part 1). The issue examined is getting rid of the IRS.
Misleading, Rose
There are two major problems with the proposed "Fair Tax":

By Attorney Tom Cryer

1. It fails to put the government back on its intended 1500 calorie diet, which is an essential step if we are to put the government back in its limited and very specific role--after all, the freedom movement is not about money, it's about restoring a Constitutional republic that confines itself to those few powers delegated to it; and

2. Moderation in Constitutional excess is an improvement, but it is not enough.

The first: The object of the freedom movement and of Truth Attack is to "put the federal government back in its box . . . one tentacle at a time." While many flail away at the limbs of the tree of tyranny, we need to chop at the roots. The founding fathers knew they had to restrain the new federal agency government because the second they injected power into its veins it would crave and demand more. That is the nature of government, to seek more power at the expense of liberty. One of the chains they put on the government was the limitations on not only its taxing authority, but on the manner in which it could tax. They made it "impossible" for the federal government to impose a mandatory tax on citizens . . . period. The 16th Amendment did not change that (See the Supreme Court in Brushaber, Peck v. Lowe, Baltic Mining, etc., etc., etc.).

If one compares the powers granted the limited federal government, including the enabling clauses of various amendments, to the budget headings alone, he would discover that there are many departments for which he cannot find any Constitutional authority. I did that for the 2007 budget in researching the book I was writing, "Liberty Lost, A Treasure Map to Buried Freedom", and when I moved those extra-Constitutional expenditures (headings alone, no drilling down and finding many other usurpations) into their own column, I found that 56% of the federal budget is devoted to expenditures the federal governme0nt had no right or power to incur in the first place.

Those excesses could not happen without there first being an excess in the exercise of taxing authority, in the case of the income tax, the taxing of rights. The abuse and misapplicaiton of the income tax has enabled the government to break through the financial barrier imposed by the founding fathers. The only way to ensure that the government does not outgrow its britches is to put it back on its intended limited diet. It has broken into the feed shed and the fair tax doesn't drive it back out of there.

The second: In an interview with Joe Banister I asked him what he thought about the fair tax proposal and his response was that the IRS would abuse and misrepresent any tax it was entrusted with administering. A former Special Agent with the IRS's C.I.D., he should know. While I know of no reason to question, and don't doubt, the honesty, integrity and good intentions of those advocating the fair tax, those honorable men and women will not be the ones who administer it. Substituting one tax on our right to earn a living with another is not solving the problem, either to protect our other rights (the power to tax is the power to destroy) or to limit the federal government's financial ability to exceed its authority.

With that starting point, that the tax as applied (not as written) is taxing our right to earn a living through our own labor, and is being applied to receipts that are not income in the first place, doing it less is not enough. I'm sure that Rodney King would not have been satisfied with the cops' merely slowing the pace of their blows. Neither am I.

We are entitled to our rights, every one of them, and if the government is permitted to tax/destroy one it can and will tax/destroy another. The IRS cannot be trusted to follow the written law, which does not impose any liability for the tax on working America, so why would they stop there? Privileges, not rights, are taxed. Does the government grant you its permission to exercise a right? No. It grants privileges and can tax those privileges because it has the power to destroy privileges by merely denying them. They have no authority to tax/destroy our rights, though, because those come from a higher sovereignty.

The Tennesee Supreme Court said it best in Jack Cole v. McFarland. Governments can only tax privileges and only the "privileged" enjoy those. If everyone can engage in an activity then it is not the exercise of a privilege and it is not a subject of taxation. The fair tax would only be a moderation in Constitutional excess. Moderation is not enough. We have to insist on complete compliance because every thread of that document is precious. You cannot injure one part of the Constitution without the rest feeling the pain.

The fair tax would allow the illegal and unconstitutional application of the income tax to our labor, whether as written or as misapplied, would continue. Nothing would be accomplished.

Tommy Cryer


Eric Russell said...

With respect to Point 1:
The FairTax addresses, in the first place, the WAY in which taxes are collected. The amount spent by government is a separate (and equally important) issue but is not addressed directly by FairTax (although many FairTax supporters, probably most, are in favor of "starving the beast").

I know this has been told to the author of this blog, but she simply refuses to listen.

Smartbandwidth said...


You are doing a GREAT service to our country by covering this "FRAUD TAX" that disguises itself - like all Trojan Horses - behind the mis-labeled brand of "FAIR TAX".

Any individual who supports this "FRAUD TAX" in my book is committing treason against the founding principals that made America the first and ONLY experiment with freedom and liberty.

The cornerstone for this great American Republic was declared and proclaimed in our Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

The "FRAUD TAXERS" deny this declaration. The "FRAUD TAXERS" deny that our rights as individuals come from God - cannot be taxed - while they spin a very dark administrative-statutory web that will inevitably result in the criminalization of cash, the expansion of the status-quo through a globally administered value-added tax system that the entire rest of the world is being forced by embrace by the NWO oligarchs. The "FRAUD TAXERS" actually are working tooth and nail to maintain the private monopoly-run Federal Reserve and it's collection agency, the IRS.

Under the yoke-boot of this "FRAUD TAX" the final destruction of the sovereignty of "the several states" will manifest as they become mere administrative appendages of the Federal leviathan.

Thanks again Rose! Keep up the great work!

Peace and God Bless,

Fred Smart

The Freedom Fellowship said...

From here on out ANY-ALL references to this subject should be headlined with the label "FRAUD TAX".

I have invited Rose and others to continue focusing on the truth of this ruse by posting over at

Daar said...

(Part 1 of 3) First, on Tommy's two points:

Point 1: FairTax has to do with transparency and how taxes are collected. How taxes are collected is important to addressing the question of Congressional spending, generally, for the following reason: Replacing the income tax with the FairTax eliminates subterfuge and distraction. It eliminates poltical repression of citizens who want change relating to Congress's spending. FairTax eliminates the questions relating to the abrogation of citizens' basic constitutional rights (1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments) which are being disputed, right now, in the courts ON ACCOUNT OF THE STRUCTURE, LAW, AND APPLICATION OF THE INCOME TAX.

FairTax is EASY TO UNDERSTAND by the average citizen, and creates transparency as to citizens' actual tax load, and forms a motivating impetus to activism in order to protest Congressional spending, and will enhance efforts to effect corrective change.

Point 2: I know that you and Rose just don't want to accept that the IRS is is actually eliminated under the FairTax, but it is (Dr. Kotlikoff's rebuttal under my Comment #3 here), except to collect prior-years' assessments with stipulated sunset of that organization. 90% of points of collection are gone! Under FairTax, the average wage-earning person will not be required to have interaction with any government tax agent.

- - -

Next, I take issue with Fred's very emotional - and completely off the mark - characterization of the FairTax.

Fred, your "bandwidth" is a bit too narrow on this subject. Either, you don't (or don't want to) understand the plan, or perhaps you fear FairTax's enactment because it will make many points of contention with the IRS moot. (Tommy, and other Constitutional attorneys might not like the way an enacted FairTax will cut into their business of defending others being prosecuted for alleged tax crimes by the U.S. government.)

Your post calls FairTax the "FRAUD TAX" without demonstrating how this is so. You've accused those of us who want to replace the Marxist income tax with the FairTax as "committing treason against the founding principals [sic]" without illustration.

Next you got up on your soapbox and sang us some beautiful strains from the Declaration of Independence - which all of us FairTaxers love, and revere, just like you and Rose, and Tommy. In fact, we're acting in accord with that Declaration, to "alter it [the Government]" by aiming our efforts at a tool of great treachery and control by government, THE INCOME TAX CODE - working tirelessly to SCRAP IT, and the entire income tax system.

You say we're Declaration "deniers" (is that anything like "income tax deniers"?). You say that FairTaxers "deny that our rights, as individuals, come from God - cannot be taxed." Pretty presumptuous of you, don't you think? Perhaps you don't like that FairTaxers agree with you that Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happines is a God-given, "unalienable" right - but we disagree with you that we, as Citizens of the United States, "cannot be taxed"? Let's look at an example of why we not only can be taxed , but in actuality are the ones who pay all taxes. (continued in Part 2)

Daar said...

(Part 2 of 3) Art. I, Section 6 (US Const) states, "The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their services, to be ascertained by Law..." This "Compensation" will be paid from some kind of financial receipts, or Revenues. But, how will this Revenue be raised?

Curiously, it's not until the following section (Art.I, Sec. 7, US Const) that we're informed who is responsible for originating bills to raise the Revenue (U.S. House of Rep's). Where does the Revenue come from? From whence shall it be "raised"?

Sec. 8 tells us the source of that Revenue is "Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises" which, we're there told "Congress shall have the power to lay..." Should we, the citizens, pay the salaries of our own federal representatives? Or, can the Congress (in some way) "force" importers of goods to our shores to bear the cost (so that we, the People can be free of taxes in our Pursuit of Happiness)?

Well, it looks like commodities, or producers of commodities - and not Citizens, per se - shall be taxed under Sec. 8, right? But wait, it is we, the citizens, as consumer (either as direct purchaser, or supplier of funds to a collective purchase) who have the money sought after by those producers of commodities - foreign ... or domestic.

So, even though the federal government lays a tax on the producers or agents of incoming goods to pay their salaries, do you think that we "Happiness-pursuing, Liberated and Free" U.S. citizens who - having Freedom to choose to voluntarily purchase those goods and do so - are actually the ones whose money is the source of Congress's Revenue and is, in actuality, is paying the salaries?

The answer is: Yes.

To somehow believe that someone has a source of Revenue that is from other than "we, the People" is a "feel-good, let-someone-else-pay-it" myth.

Could the federal government borrow from banks? Yes, but there, also (absent the distortions of printed fiat currency manufactured out of thin air by the Federal Reserve), bank savings (should) represent our (the people's) "stored fruits of real, productive labor."

Could the federal government raid corporate profits? Yes, but that will rob shareholders (we, the people) of their right to a "return on investment," or otherwise cause an increase in that corporations' prices, or because of competitive pressures from foreign competition - simply put companies out of business (we, the people, losing our jobs).

FairTaxers believe that the federal government ought not be able to tax us directly by siphoning off monies coming to us (i.e., taxing income), but ought - as per Sec. 8 - receive their revenues in monies being spent by us (taxing spending) on retail-only goods and services (services being a "consumable product"). While it taxes persons, it is an indirect tax to the extent that one purchases used goods (which will not bear a new FairTax), or otherwise becomes self-sufficient (i.e. "do it yourself").

FairTaxers believe that the spirit of the founding fathers was that money which we earned is ours to do with as we will, and that withholding wages, effectively directly taxing income, runs counter to this ideal.

FairTaxers believe that every working (non-business=owning) American ought not be a candidate for a tax deficiency subject to audit, interest, penalties - even prosecution - by virtue of going to work everyday. That is, under the present system, one cannot escape the income tax except by not working a regular job (which wages can be garnished by IRS coercion) which effectively deprives us of our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Daar said...

(Part 3 of 3) FairTax enables families to make the choice of how and when to pay the tax based on how, and when, they choose to spend their money.

FairTax eliminates the income tax code used by lobbyists and politicians to socially control behavior of corporations and individuals, oftimes distorting market conditions by giving advantage to one sector of business or society at cost to the remaining sectors.

FairTax informs taxpayers as to their true tax load. FairTax recognizes the reality that "to tax business," is really to place a hidden tax upon individuals (acquiring that business's goods or services) in higher prices. Thus, FairTax eliminates business income and payroll taxes, and their compliance costs. This means that businesses will no longer be penalized with higher tax bills when they add employees. The income tax penalizes productivity. The FairTax does not, and instead, rewards savings.

The FairTax unites we, the People, because without a tax code, politicians and lobbyists will no longer be able to pit poor against rich - thereby effectively distracting us from focusing on HOW THEY ARE SPENDING WHAT WE GIVE THEM.

Fred, everything you've stated about FairTaxers spinning "a very dark administrative-statutory web" is exactly what we seek to get rid of by scrapping the income tax code (why just go to Tommy's, and figure out why you have to be a Constitutional Attorney to defend yourself in an income tax prosecution!)

Furthermore, "cash is criminalized" now, under the income tax to the extent that the federal (and MI) gov'ts lay first claim to it - even before we do.

FairTax is NOT a "value-added tax." A VAT is a hidden tax that runs contrary to FairTax goals of transparency.

Like you, many FairTaxers are learning about the problems that accompany giving power to print currency to a private banking system largely owned by international banking interests, and its power to control / destroy economies. Most FairTaxers, who are aware of this, do not support the Federal Reserve and would join with Ron Paul in calling for its elimination. Congress should print its own currency, expanding its supply to reflect a growth in the productive economy.

Now, Fred, we'd appreciate it greatly if you'd correct your grossly inacurrate characterizations of the FairTax, and stop tearing down brother- and sister- patriots in the cause of Liberty.

FTX Bob said...

Taxing and spending are just two of the many issues WE THE PEOPLE have to unite and fix. The apathy and lack of participation by most citizens is what created this mess. As an activist,I am inspired by the fact that many citizens are waking up and getting active.
Political corruption on both sides is the biggest problem we must address. Over 50% of the corruption is tax favor related. The Fair Tax Plan would greatly diminish the problem. I have found that 99% percent of those that oppose the Fair Tax do not really know or understand it. It is the closest thing humanly possible to fair. It benefits all citizens and advantages none. I have challenged many to give plausible opposition to it but no argument has stood. If there is a better solution than the Fair Tax I welcome it. Till there is something better, we should all get behind it. If you think you fully understand it and oppose it, take a closer look. Common sense will bring you to the same conclusion as mine.
Until we get together and do a little bit, we are stuck with the current situation.

Unalienable said...

Why can I not get past the first five words of anything Daar writes.

Transparency is where I got lost.

I really do not care if my rapist wears a transparent condom.

Daar is obvious well paid to keep this going, as the word UNALIENABLE makes very clear that there is just no authority for any vote to take away my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

There is just no law that can be passed that can lawfully touch my antecednet, in perpetuum, fundamental, pre-existing Rights.

I resent people like Daar who believe that because I exercised my Right to vote, that I waived all of my other rights, despite the postion fo the U.S. S. Ct. in Simons v. U.S.

Daar, go cash your pay check, the future is not with you, it is with UNALIENABLE RIghts.

Rose said...

I'm sorry FTX Bob, but you haven't really offered any pertinent argument here.

There has been an argument against the Fair Tax that you and the other Fair Tax paid pushers keep ignoring.

Those gosh darned UNALIENABLE Rights and the fact that there are multitudes of court rulings to back it up besides the Declaration of Independence.

But, your opinion counts so you have the right to express it.

Rose said...

"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."

Thomas Jefferson

Does the Fair Tax address this? Sadly no. The Fair Tax only want's to shift the burden away from the Privilege Corporations and place it on the back of the citizen.

Rose said...

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
Thomas Jefferson

This is what government is doing today, wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

Does the Fair Tax address this issue. NO. It only exchanges one method of collection for another, wasting the labors of the people, another pretense of "Government God will take care of you."

Rose said...

"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe,"
Thomas Jefferson

Does the Fair Tax address the corruption? No, it only continues to feed the Beast when we should be addressing the beast head on.

Rose said...

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."
Thomas Jefferson

The Fair Taxers would have you continue to fund the government who compels you to furnish contributions of money for things which you believe to be sinful and tyrannical.

Rose said...

"A wise and frugal government,
...leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."

Daar said...

Rose, Unalienable,

I am - and always have been - an unpaid volunteer. Had either of you simply bothered to ask me, before "jumping to conclusions" (a wide-spread thinking distortion - I call it Little Fox 5 - that is responsible for much misery, injustice, and wasted mental energy), I would've told you so.

Sadly, it is this type of rigid, distorted thinking that is driving the posting of FairTax mis-information on this blog.

Unalienable said...


you still don't get it. We have other better solutions in the works that will make your fair tax MOOT.

Like the Recall of US Senators.

Smartbandwidth said...


Just curious:

Is there such a thing as a "paid volunteer?"

That has a familiar "ring" to a this "fair tax" label.

Daar said...

My first thought, Fred, was that you were correct-- a "volunteer" implies "unpaid."

But, come to think of it, I "volunteer" in the City of Detroit as an Election Day Precinct Chairperson. It is not a formal employment position for the Dept. of Elections (don't see a listing under "job openings"). There is no employment agreement, per se. There are no days off. No sick time. No benefits. And the need for my service occurs only for one day with interim spans of months.

They pay me for my time to be there, and deliver the ballots back to the Receiving Office at the end of the day. So, I guess it would best be termed a "paid volunteer."

As for the "fairness" of the FairTax, I have covered it pretty exhaustively throughout Comment posts in Rose's "FAIR TAX DEBATE" section.

Use some "smartbandwidth" and "good faith," Fred, to search out the fairness of the FairTax. I've published much on this blog that you could identify as "fair" about the plan (in the course of commenting on false and misleading information published here by others).

RGeorgeDunn said...

Well said Daar and FTX. How many people who get back income tax think it a gift from the government?(not the Communist earned income return). If we paid our taxes from the income after earned and put in our wallet, would we not be astounded at how much the Federal Government spends? Would we not then be offended and being that the politicians would no longer be controlled by lobbyists fending for loopholes to the rich, but by the voters?(especially if campaign donations are limited to individual citizens only and not corporations including non-profit)

The average Citizen has trouble wrapping their mind around the FairTax simply because of the largess amount of Taxation it takes to pay for this tyrannical Federal Government. Just the thought of the truth offends, yet the current hidden raping of the people goes on as acceptable?

Our Fed. Gov. is so close to not being changed without extreme measures. The current system has made the powers in Washington able to overcome any "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" that the ballot is near fraudulent control by wireless computer data banking. We need to pull out the teeth of this Washington Shadow by many different approaches. But the greatest empowerment of we the people is to make taxation indirect once again. FairTax does this. Putting tax on corporations does too if the consumers is aware of it, but this corporate taxation is just as harmful as the income tax because of lack of transparency.

Should corporations be allowed to make money? Yes! Who profits from it? Stockholders? Pensions? And if the FairTax creates many jobs, good paying jobs, will this incite spending thus creating a greater avenue of pursuing happiness? Would this also lower the needed tax burden percentage of consumed goods, foreign and domestic?

Rose, your quoting Thomas Jefferson is very appropriate to the very reason we need the FairTax, but our Ship the USA did not get on these rock overnight and it will require many years to regain our liberty of the Constitution. We will heed to find a way to move from the socialist programs at the federal level to the private sector where it belongs, i.e. Social Security, now Medicare, etc. While we are recreating our Federal Gov. to it's Constitutional size, we need the tools to free us to be prosperous. I do agree though that the FairTax is not the end all, but is but one step in regaining the empowerment the Constitution provides to We the People in exercising our In-alienable rights.

As to accusing Daar as a bought servant, you show your inadequacy of understanding truth. Daar is a Patriot, not a RNC DNC prolog. He is the most involved American you will find and doing so without the frills of being paid. Daar is selflessly denying himself to provide for one of the greatest activists you will ever know. He supports dumping the Federal Reserve, the IRS, socialism of the Federal Gov., and much more to which liberty and freedom of the Founding Fathers knowledge bestow. He is just as patriotic as the sacrifice the Rose has performed all these years. Thanks to both of you. But Rose, I pray that you can see the great need we have to change our tax structure and change this Federal Beast in incremental steps. Washington Shadow will not go away easily. My hopes is that we can do it without what Thomas Jefferson also said is needed at times,, "Liberty can not be preserves without the shedding of a little blood now and again." (paraphrased) FairTax pulls the rug out from under Congress.

Smartbandwidth said...

>>FairTax pulls the rug out from under Congress.>>

The Fraud Tax actually rolls a new "RED" carpet of funding legitimacy while givin Congress a pass on the current fraud as it ignores the necessity to address We The People's first amendment right to redress of grievances - ie. putting government back in the box by holding Congress accountable to the current abuses of power & authority.

1) Ignoring the current fraudulent administration of the current tax system while 2) redirecting attention toward a new method of funding these abuses of power and authority does not make the Fraud Tax "Fair".

I smell a rat. What I see is a here is a bait & switch propaganda machine.

I could never figure out why the "Fraud Tax" leadership team never endorsed or got behind the first amendment right to petition for redress of grievances. It doesn't make a bit of sense to try to bring in anything new unless and until you have fully examined and accounted for the old. "Fraud Taxers" don't care about because - by ignoring the requirement for transparency, accountability through the requirement for redress in the first amendment - from a fundamental point view they are not advocating anything "new" much less "fair."

If we ACTIVATE the last 10 words in the first amendment things would naturally revert to being "fair" and the restoration of the American Constitutional Republic would begin in haste along the peaceful pathway back toward the light of truth rooted in the Law of We The People.

RGeorgeDunn said...

Actually, the FairTax Resolution requires that the tax system be changed to a place that is as if the 16th Amendment (which is being confused to tax income)has been repealed and reuires the Act to desolve should the 16th not be repealed within a seven year window allowing for 35 States to ratify the repeal.

SmartBandwidth, your words are very true but for your lack of understanding how the FairTax will shift our Nations Tax burden from domestic production to an equal distribution on all product imported and domestic.

Before the Bush/Obama big Govenrment ploy with our economy these past two years, the mathmatical % to replace the IRS Code was 23%. Imagine if we can get that down to 2, 3%? This would allow for the States to prosper individually and the individual to find a job or create to prosper.

Jobs are what we need and putting the tax burden onto imports and lowering it on domestic manufacturing will do just that. FairTax please!

Rose said...

I think Melinda Wiman says it best in the message she sent to the Golden List this morning.

"A key to our success in defeating what we perceive as an evil being perpetrated on us.

Those who are seeking to destroy our freedoms understand that they can do so only when we acquiesce and give them our "free will" to proceed.

We can't allow them to "nudge" us, which some like Cass Sunstein believe will get them to the "end game."

What Eric, George and Daar don't seem to understand is, this is not the first time that Progressives have tried to eliminate the Corporate Excise Tax and impose a Income or Consumption Tax.

Eric admits that the Fair tax only changes the way tax is collected and does not address government spending.

"Those who are seeking to destroy our freedoms understand that they can do so only when we acquiesce and give them our "FREE WILL" to proceed."

Gentleman, it is the government spending that is the issue of the People who are attending the Tea Parties. As people come here to read through these posts, they will see that the Fair Tax does not address the issues they are fed up with and turn away from the issue.

They will learn that they still have to register with the State using a SS# to get the prebate. That SS# is the number one cause of Identity Theft. Even the State of Michigan would not give me a signed statement saying that my Identity would be secure but still demanded it on my drivers license.

I'm sorry, but the three of you just have such a loosing argument that doesn't even address any of the issues of freedom that we are all fighting for.

The only thing your doing is trying to convince us to continue to "FEED THE BEAST" but do it this way instead of that.

Not very patriotic if you ask me.

FTX Bob said...

The Fair Tax is just one of the necessary steps to regain our freedoms. Necessary services obviously cannot be supplied without government funding. We must continue to demand fiscal responsibility. I want someone to show me where businesses pay taxes. Any tax levied comes out of the consumers pocket. The tax is just buried in the price of every product and service we buy.
The statement that the Fair Tax takes the tax burden off corporations and lays it on the citizens is invalid. It's already there! The Fair Tax will spread the burden and make taxpayers of all the weasels that get away without paying. Once again, I have found that 99% of those that oppose the Fair Tax do not truly understand it. By the way, I am an unpaid citizen activist. I really am looking for and will readily support a tax system that is better than the Fair Tax. It simply does not exist.

RGeorgeDunn said...

The FairTax is but one factor of many that need to be done. Freedom of Unconstitutional Conduct by the Federal Government as well as the fiscal demise we are in.

The need for jobs is immediate. We only know a part of the story. Imagine mass accounts of Commercial loans and home loans sitting in limbo, called Shadow Defaults. The FairTax is a major need at this moment to embrace the future as it is unfolding. Hope is in the details.

As to transferring the powers from Federal to State, we did not get into this overnight and it will take time. My greatest suggestion is to put healthcare Savings Accounts and Social Security into a voluntary system managed by the Board of Governors, getting the Sheriff aspect of the USA out of the treasury business. By making a social program voluntary by State Statute, it will free our disgrace that not following the Constitution has decayed us into.

Fiscally, at $500,000 per Citizen, America is in default. By ending the Federal Programs abruptly, a vacuum may erupt. Either way, we still need jobs. We still need the Fiscal step of freeing us from the tyrannical tax system we have and cutting fresh, the lower the Government spending the better our economy. FairTax PLEASE~

Rose said...


Talking to you and Daar is really a wast of my time and yours by the way.

Why do we need to have the Board of Governors manage any savings for anything? You guys totally miss the point of LIBERTY. You just don't get it.

I really question who and what you are when you peddle such crape as this. We all know we didn't get in this over night. And we have been fighting for our rights and liberty for over 40 years now.

You want to keep this up for another 40 years? You don't make sense at all.

RGeorgeDunn said...

The relinguishing of Social Security will be not easy. We need a plan to do so. YOu may be right about the not needing the Board of Govenrors. What I am thinking here is off topic and will refrain other then to say that if we were to make a combination of HSA and IRA, the young would be so swell off in medical care and retirement savings. Such an HSA/IRA could be set up in our local bank or as a large regional or naitonal program, all voluntary individually.

Thanks for the Thread Rose. It is a good one.