Monday, August 16, 2010

Reader Response Requested.

Please read the comment by Travllrs and then my comments below. Reader Comments are Requested.

travllrs has left a new comment on your post "Fair Tax & Senate Bill S-510": 

Rose, first off, thank you for all your hard work in bringing many important bits of information to our attention. I salute you, and it is why I keep in touch with your blog.

The assaults on our Liberty are many-tentacled, and they involve cooperation and coordination between governments, central banks, and multi-national corporations. They also involve overwhelming the citizenry with attempts to limit Liberty via increased regulation and legislation, fomenting alarm, even panic, which generates anger and resentment.

Once anger and resentment take over, rational analysis of solutions is often impossible. This, in turn, foments argument within patriot ranks, confuses many, divides us, and pits us against each other, keeping us from effectively channeling our energies in a united fashion to effectively dismantle the "puzzle palace" operations, piece by piece.

The income tax, and its system of coercive and intrusive collection, places ALL of us at risk. The system is purposely debilitating by virtue of the needless wasted hours it puts us to in order to stave off the constant threat of mounting financial (interest, penalties) and emotional harm - even to the point of suicide! (BTW, I read somewhere that no stat's are kept on IRS collections that result in the death of the taxpayer being pursued.)

Access to cash flow, through withholding from worker paychecks, together with the ability to require compliance under threat, is but a part of the puzzle as to how the government / political class conducts in subversive mission - but IT IS AN IMPORTANT PART. Put simply, the FairTax is an important citizen-initiated initiative which focuses on "following the money." If successfully enacted, the FairTax enables We, the People, to regain control of when, how, and how much we pay "da Man," and - as Daar has previously discussed - provides options to protest Congressional spending that currently do not exist (see his Comments, elsewhere, under FAIR TAX DEBATE at left margin).

To summarize: Though the FairTax does not directly deal with these other "tentacles" that we ALL are alarmed about, (spending, subversion through un-Constitutional laws and regulations), successfully instituting the FairTax as a replacement to the income tax, removes a key "control and command" center used by the government against us.

The thing that I fear most is that patriots will become so overwhelmed with the "many-tentacled assault," that they'll be unable to know how to "process" relationships among them, and so will be ineffective in their fight against these initiatives. This is currently happening, and is demonstrated repeatedly here on your blog. Patriots - like yourself - ought to be very vigilent, and try to steer clear from using emotionally-charged, angry epithets in regard to any initiative that addresses such a key part of the puzzle. If you can rationally present logic for opposition - point by point - so each point can be examined, this would be helpful. (Daar has tried to do this, but it seems that his points are just dismissed without further inquiry or examination - on point.)

It you continue to just refuse to listen to reason - and you fail to use reason to demonstrate either why your beliefs are correct - OR INCORRECT, you'll ultimately lose credibility, readers and support. You also stand to hurt the cause of Liberty when those, who placed their trust in your judgement, realize that it has been misplaced and they they respond with resignation.

As all my readers can see, Travllrs has attacked my credibility on the issue of the Fair Tax and Senate Bill S-510. Now I thought I used logic to educate all of you why the Fair Tax isn't Fair or any better than the present system, however, Travllrs, Daar Fisher and the rest of the EVEIL Fair Tax Promoters seem to just dismiss the facts.


Fact 1 - SATURDAY, AUGUST 14, 2010
Wheat Soars; Rogers Sees 'Much Higher' Food Prices


Fact 2 - Unemployment's true number is at around 16% as reported tonight by Glenn Beck.


Fact 3 - The only rising wage in this country is government employees. IRS agents, Treasury employees, Social Security employees, FBI, CIA, Teachers, County, State, City employees. The privet sector is seeing a decline in wages/benefits. Most people are having to work two jobs and still can't keep their heads above water.


Fact 4 - Elderly who are living on a fixed income cannot afford the coming hyper-inflation that Jim Rogers is predicting will hit sometime within the next few months. The Fair Tax not only taxes food, it taxes doctor visits, hospital stays, medication and the boy who may cut your grass.


Fact 5 - It's a given that this Senate will pass S-510 just as they passed the Health Care and Stimulus Bills that no one want's. This bill takes away our Right to grow our own food, share, trade or sell homegrown food.


So, is there anyone of my readers who don't understand these as being credible reasons to reject the Fair Tax?

23 comments:

Tom Rankin said...

The number one reason I am Against the Fair Tax is that it will still enable BIG GOVERNMENT.

In Liberty,
Tom Rankin
C4Lsheepdog
985/438-6798
Louisiana State Coordinator
Campaign for Liberty

John Galt said...

By all means, forward this response:

Dear Government officials and elected representatives,
I am just another unimportant taxpayer who happens to be a veteran and former corrections officer. I have spent years of my life in service to the federal government and to the state (they are different). My wife and I labor for the few luxuries that we can afford and for the food that graces our table. I am the average voter.

I am different in that I don't believe that voting my conscience is "wasting my vote." Many of us remember the sneer on Senator McCain's face when the Honorable Ron Paul mentioned the Constitution. I, amongst many, also know that the solutions to our state and federal situation are not "complicated" (as the current President of the United States likes to say). The solutions are relatively simple. I am not a brilliant man but I am far from ignorant. If I can figure out what needs to be done then the elected, and very educated representatives of The People can figure it out.

The solutions are clear. I have to wonder about people that refuse to even acknowledge the clear solutions.

Though I am no longer in uniform I still hold my original oath valid. Do my elected officials hold their oath to be valid? It tears my heart out to see actions that would show evidence that they do not.

Fair tax? Here it is. 10% across the board on consumption. Not on what I am able to save or the investments that we are able to make, because the Social Security system that I have paid into for my entire working life will not pay to me one dime. Just one what I spend. This would encourage savings which builds individuals' retirement funds. This would also encourage further investment which creates jobs. Governments don't create jobs without taking from others because governments create nothing.

I willing to sacrifice the rest of my life, for what that is worth, to back and support any politician that is willing to lead our great nation back to its proper place in the world. It makes me sad that I served, and it makes me sad that I buried the great men in my family under our flag. Why did they have to sacrifice their lives when the government they defended are willing to allow them to die?

When next you read the polls, that is why. The current politicos have left the American people. We stand as Americans. Our so-called leaders stand for special and foreign interests. We are barely putting food on the table while our elected leaders dine on expensive plates. We are sick of it.

Vote them all out. The Democans and Republicrats have nothing to do with the American people.

justino said...

To quote Alex Knight, "Taxation is theft, and theft cannot be 'reformed.'"

Enough said.

Angry Citizen said...

All the fair tax does, is allow the current level of corruption in government to be funded a different way. Nor does it address a key issue: oveer spending by congress.

Such is no solution.

dean said...

have you read the fair tax book to understand how it works?

Rose said...

Dean, have you read the BILL to understand what it says?

pepperpete1 said...

Thanks Rose for posting the information that you do. I come here to read and stay abreast of what is going on besides what our main stream media is saying. Then I research what I have read. I do not take someone else's opinion as my own without verifying and thinking things out on my own, no matter how much I may respect the person.

Rose said...

pepperpete, if more people would do what you do, we wouldn't be in this mess.

travllrs said...

You've characterized me as "evil," simply because I support the FairTax.

In my reply to Devvy Kidd's article, I focused on why this type of character-smearing, followed by "guilt by association (with smeared character)" does NOT constitute a valid logical (nor ethical) basis to present in order to persuade others to oppose the FairTax.

Rose said...

The Fare Tax is evil, just as the income tax is evil.

You Travllrs are judged by the company you keep. In your eyes the Federal Reserve and Fair Tax may be something good, but out here in the world of Patriots, it's just evil and needs to go away.

Your problem arises by ASSUMING that you are the chosen one to come here and educate an already educated woman on the error of her ways.

You know what they say about people who assume don't you?

travllrs said...

Do you think they judged Jesus by the company he kept?

Cia W said...

Wow, interesting tactic, threatening your credibility. My only comment is that there is a good deal of smoke & mirrors on this so-called FairTax. They claim one thing (it will end withholding) but when you actually read H.R. 25 you find that it actually purports to phase out withholding.

Seriously, do you really think it would be phased out? Or would they find excuse after excuse why they have to keep waiting?

There are other things not to like about the bill, but that one is at the top of my list. Feel free to add it to yours, too. Not to mention, there's an excellent chance it's completely unconstititional 'among the several states', but when has that stopped them?

travllrs said...

Cia, I sense that you want your voice to be heard, and you also want it to matter. That's good.

Unfortunately, what you've set forth here adds little (except maybe to mildly bolster Rose's counter-productive "modus operandi" - and that does not help Rose, in a constructive manner, nor does it move the discussion toward clarity).

Your allusion to "smoke and mirrors" remains undefined. And the end of withholding, under the FairTax, is not a matter of what I'm "claiming," or what someone else might "think about it, seriously" - it's a feature of the FairTax plan.

It's not a matter of "there's a chance," that the proposed FairTax is un-Constitutional - either it IS (as I believe) or it ISN'T; make your case.

Now, this is all said to sharpen your attention, and to stimulate you to action - INVESTIGATE for yourself!

You're not here to please, or support, anyone. You're here to "hold feet to the fire" - question Rose, question me.

As for Rose's credibility, yes, I've stated the grounds upon which I call her credibility into question; and YOU SHOULD call it into question, also, if you agree with the grounds for same that I've set forth!

Is Rose keeping her examination of the FairTax on point? Or, is she adding other things into the mix that confuse and emotionally-polarize or distract from productive discussion? This you must decide for yourself. And your conclusion must meet YOUR OWN approval, no one else's.

For, unless, and until, you do your OWN investigation, you'll be someone else's "pawn" to be manipulated and controlled.

I wish you God's speed in your quest to fortify your understanding.

Daar said...

Since you've solicited your readers' response, there are a couple of important items, pertaining to your credibility, that I'd like to bring to your attention:

1) Look-back FAIR TAX DEBATE . . . NOT!

As much as you and I disagree on the FairTax, I have held you up as an example of "freedom of speech." You let opposing viewpoints stand at your blog.

Now, I discover that in your left margin, under archived "FAIR TAX DEBATE," you've bypassed your blog articles (where the views that oppose yours are contained), and you instead link to the referenced anti-FairTax article directly. So, if readers want to go back and visit the "debate," they only get ONE SIDE!

This makes a mockery out of your "FAIR TAX DEBATE." It does not respect your admirers, nor does it respect their intelligence - to hear both sides of an issue to make up their own minds.

Please restore the proper links, or take down the FAIR TAX DEBATE. I've searched through your blog and managed to find these links (but NOT all of them) that SHOULD have been archived:

• Post: "Founder of FairTax.org..." Link should be:
http://hellomichigan.blogspot.com/2010/08/founder-of-fairtaxorg-was-former.html

• Post: "Fair tax is a trap: Demand..." Link should be:
http://hellomichigan.blogspot.com/2010/08/fair-tax-is-trap-demand-no-vote-on-hr.html

2) ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF ARTICLE PROVIDERS

If Readers send you articles (like I do), and you choose to post them (and you've posted several that I've sent), it's common courtesy to acknowledge/thank the person who supplied them to you. Otherwise, your readers are left with the (false) impression that you are the investigative source of everything you publish.

Rose said...

Ok Daar, I fixed it just for you Dear.

Liberty Activists, You sat I want to fight the system and you and Daar want to change it.

Obama offered us change.

HOW'S THAT WORKING OUT FOR YA?

Daar said...

Thank you, dear Patriot. You are made whole in my eyes (even though you're still "seeing crooked" where the FairTax is concerned). ;->

Daar said...

Oh, I should have known better than to TAKE YOU AT YOUR WORD.

You've NOT done what was the RIGHT thing to do, but instead added the word, "Anti-" to the "Fair Tax Debate."

Unless you're prepared to post POSITIVE articles in the space, it will NOT be a debate.

I may have to forget about coming back here, Rose. It gets tiring dealing with your irrationality.

Rose said...

Daar, just when have I ever said that I was FOR the fair tax?

You seem to forget who this blog belongs to. If I am against the fair tax, why in the world would I publish anything positive?

I do however, allow you to come here and counter anything that is posted and leave it for people to read. I think that is more than fair.

Whine, whine, whine!!! That's all you ever do when you don't get your way. If you can't bully your way to get what you want, you whine.

Daar said...

Well, let's leave the whine- but WINE sounds good about now!

A toast to you, Rose. God bless ya (in spite of yourself).

Regards to Bill.

Tom Rankin said...

Follow the money. See where the trail goes.

http://uswgo.com/leo-e-linbeck-jr-the-founder-of-fairtax-org-was-a-former-director-of-the-dallas-federal-reserve.htm



In Liberty,
Tom Rankin
C4Lsheepdog
985/438-6798

Tom Rankin said...

Just follow the Money.
It leads straight to the Federal Reserve.

http://uswgo.com/leo-e-linbeck-jr-the-founder-of-fairtax-org-was-a-former-director-of-the-dallas-federal-reserve.htm

I wonder if Mr. Linebeck is a member of the CFR?

In Liberty,
Tom Rankin
C4Lsheepdog
985/438-6798

MM said...

Rose - You are "Arguing With Idiots" [Glenn Beck's book] when trying to have a rational discussion with the likes of travllrs and Daar.
The income tax should be completely abolished along with its unlawful creature - The Federal Reserve.
We should not be handing any money to the Fed's from the States and the individuals without the Fed's first having to supply clear and concise reasons for why it needs the funds.

Rose said...

I know Mary, and it always ends up the same way.